Welcome aboard! Can't wait to chat with you! I'm Tamara (aka Traveling With T) and I'm the She Reads Online Book Club Discussion Leader. So we'll be seeing each other quite a bit in the forum!

She Reads will not be having a June read. They are taking a much needed summer break!

We will be back in July with a read that sounds amazing! I can't tell you yet- but please do keep an eye on the She Reads page!

One of the co-founders, Marybeth Whalen, had her newest book, The Wishing Tree, release today. So look for that in stores!

And Kim: I hope you get RECONSTRUCTING AMELIA soon!

I'm glad Firefox is back working (and I bet it was the storms!) Glad you are safe and a-ok!

Vivian and her name:

Yes, I like the name Vivian better. I think by this time really and truly it almost didn't matter to Vivian what her name was- and with the last family wanting to have her- it just seemed as easy to become Vivian than to stay Dorothy. Or anything else.

Maisie:

I'll be honest- I don't exactly remember about the neighbors part (maybe I took it as more of that is what Viv remembered- and not exactly really right. IDK. I'll have to look back over that section! But, regardless, it was a cruddy thing to do to separate Maise and Viv :(

I do wonder about the grandparents. Wonder quite a bit.

Dina:

Dina needed to grow up and stop being such a silly person. Very insecure. Her marriage- oh the things that was wrong with that as well. I am not a Dina fan- but I almost did not like hubby as much, if not more. At least with Dina, Molly knew what she was dealing with- hubby couldn't decide what side of the fence he wanted to be on.

You're welcome- happy to send positive thoughts your way :)

We've been having some bad storms here so that could have been the cause of the crustiness of my internet servers.  Not sure since now Firefox is working.  Not sure where everyone else lives but I'm in Oklahoma and we've had some ripping tornadoes lately.  Not near me praise the Lord but I feel for the people who've been hit.  I can't imagine losing everything!

Is SheReads doing a June book?  Just curious.  I'm hoping the library will get the June book for Travelingwitht ready quickly.  I'm gonna check on the progress!

Kim

travelingwitht said:

Folks:

 

The Orphan Train discussion will continue through Monday. So continue to check in over weekend. I may not be prompt with replies ( it's the weekend and I'll be playing outside with flowers and stuff- but I'll def be checking in!)

YES! YES! And now that you've mentioned threatened- do you think Dina
was threatned by Molly as woman? Here's Molly- young, cute, etc- did
Dina see her as competetion?

You know I bet she was.  She seemed like a really insecure person anyway and if they were really having marriage issues that could just be icing.  Though the husband didn't seem to feel like there were any issues.  He seemed to be coming from the point of wanting to help another teenager like he was helped when he was young.  Kind of a pass it on thing or pay it forward.  I'm wondering if communication was broken between them to the point of he didn't realize there was a problem and she thought he knew about the problem and then they didn't get anywhere but circles.

I think Dina really had some issues she needed to work out.  We didn't really get any details on what they were but it was SO obvious they were there!

PS - thanks for all the positive thoughts sent my way.  Much appreciate!

Kim

Yay my firefox is working again!

Vivian becoming Vivian, though- did she really choose? Or by that point
was she just so worn down that she didn't care what they called her?
IDK. I'm just thinking aloud.

Well I hadn't thought of that but I bet she WAS tired of her world continuously being ripped apart.  They seemed very nice about it though.   They tried to make it a suggestion and told her that it was her decision even though she was stuck with it or Dorothy and couldn't go back to her given name.  I think Vivian is WAY better than Dorothy!

Vivian not knowing about Maise till too late was sad. But again- I can
see why Maisie and Vivian were separated- it was easier to find Maisie a
home without Vivian. Wrong. Totally wrong. But easier. I think either
way with Vivian- she was going to have a hard life- living with her
parents or not.It's a life no kid should have to face. I wonder how her
life would have been if she's stayed with her grandparents?

Hmm if I remember right there were neighbors who found the kids and were helping with the fire that took Maisie.  And they just took her without asking anyone it seemed.  Almost like they had wanted her from the start?  I still can't fathom how you do that to kids but I sometimes think the kids at school would be better off on my couch then at their homes!  Although I barely take care of the house so not sure how I would take care of a kid!    Too many other fun things to do!

I've wondered about life with her grandparents too.  I know Ireland was hard but I'm wondering if it would have been as hard as America was.  It almost seems like it wouldn't!

Kim

The Orphan Train discussion will continue through Monday. So continue to check in over weekend. I may not be prompt with replies ( it's the weekend and I'll be playing outside with flowers and stuff- but I'll def be checking in!)

1. Yes, the choice was about the baby after Dutchy! I think her pain clouded her judgement. I do wish that she would have thought some more. But, I can also see her reason for giving up the baby.

2. Mr. Sorenson should have been piched black and blue for leaving Viv there. I still can't quite get him. I just know this: It's a sad situation then. And the sad situation continues.

3.Yes- those ladies helped Vivian probably even more than she was aware of. Thank goodness for them. Sometimes a stranger's kindness is the thing that keeps us going.

4.YES! YES! And now that you've mentioned threatened- do you think Dina was threatned by Molly as woman? Here's Molly- young, cute, etc- did Dina see her as competetion?

5. That man needed to be kicked for that comment. A million times.

1. Cattle- yes, they were being treated like cattle at times. Cattle may be treated better than those kids though b/c at least cattle is used for things.

Yes, even today kids are being treated terribly. Which is heartbreaking.

Of course, when Orphan Train began (with Vivian) Great Depression had not started (that began during the first house) BUT, NYC was in a flux of change. Immigrants coming in- the world changing.

Vivian and Dutchy- being older, "aged out" as it was- did get the raw end. One could argue that Vivian did have it better than Dutchy for most of the time. But I think the experience with the Grotes pretty much evened that playing field.

Carmine- by being a baby- did have it easier. But Carmine, came with no baggage. It's not fair- but babies are desirable.

2. Changing their names was not cool- BUT it was almost understandable. I guess in some ways, the new people were trying to "clean slate" the kids. And for some, take away some of the different immigrant background these kids were coming from. I didn't like it- I felt it was an erosion of the kids personal identity- but, I sorta get it.

Vivian becoming Vivian, though- did she really choose? Or by that point was she just so worn down that she didn't care what they called her? IDK. I'm just thinking aloud.

3.Vivian not knowing about Maise till too late was sad. But again- I can see why Maisie and Vivian were separated- it was easier to find Maisie a home without Vivian. Wrong. Totally wrong. But easier. I think either way with Vivian- she was going to have a hard life- living with her parents or not.It's a life no kid should have to face. I wonder how her life would have been if she's stayed with her grandparents?

Kim- I'm sorry you are having computer problems! I use Firefox and have no problem (knock on wood). If you'd like to try Chrome, I understand that works well too (although I have no experience.)

Re: Molly and her appearance: I understand Molly. I really do. I wish she didn't feel that way- but I totally get her.

Kim, I'm so sorry for what you have been goin through. You sound like such a sweet and cheerful person- and your health problems are sad. Thinking of you!

I *think* sometimes we don't want to ask for help or prayers because we don't want to be seen as "needy" or something like that. Maybe, like Molly, we've been disappointed by ppl who are supposed to love us. It's complicated, to say the least.

1. Agree. I  think Vivian and that thought is VERY telling. And explains her choice to give up her baby later. Because it was never about love or anything like that- it was about knowing her earlier life- and I think never wanting to put a child through anything like that.

2. I think when Mr. Sorenson saw the conditions of the Grote place- he should have sent Vivian back to NYC and had her ride the train again. Or at the very least tried to find a more suitable place for her in MN.

3.Thank GOODNESS for Fanny and Miss Larsen- Miss Larsen especially since she gave Vivian that book.

4. I'll have to re-read the Dina section. I know that she did not like Molly- and I seem to remember the husband wanting more to be the foster family- BUT, here's the thing: You know what- it's actually not selfish to tell your husband you don't want to be a foster mom. Not everyone is cut out for that kind of life. What is selfish and really crappy behavior is agreeing to being a foster parent- and then acting like that to the kid. Is life going to be puppies, sunshine and rainbows? No, def not- and there are days when it's going to be hard even if being a foster parent is what you want to do- BUT it's INFINTELY harder if you are going to act like Dina acts. I *almost* wonder if Dina's motivation was to save her marriage or something like that.

5. AGREED AGREED AGREED!

1. Hmm.  Tough one.  I think a lot of her decision when Dutchy died, if that's the decisiion your are talking about, was definitely built on a lot of pain.  Pain is a powerful thing and she really didn't put a lot of thought into that decision from what I could tell.  I think her childhood pain became a huge focus when she did make that decision but it almost seemed to me she had just reached her breaking point and couldn't take any more at the time.  Don't blame her there.

2. I'm completely floored that he left her in those squalled conditions.  But DHS leaves kids in the same kind of stuff all the time here.  How do you send your kid to school with smelly clothes and cat pee shoes?  How do you send them with greasy hair?  If they really don't have water that's one thing but don't tell me you don't have water but you do have satellite!  Uh....no!  DHS just turns a blind eye.  I see it all the time with the kids I work with.  I guess not enough adopters.  Maybe if the legal conditions weren't so great and we didn't have all these "middle men" to pay fees to in order to adopt or even foster there would be more people who would.  I think it was the same situation then.  Just not enough places to take the kids.  But still...how do you in good conscience leave a child to that!

3. I think she may have lost any shred of hope she had in humanity if not for them.  I know I about lose hope for humanity with the stuff I see and read about until a tiny little shining light reminds me there is still a little good out there.

4. I'm wondering if fostering was totally NOT her idea and just her husband's and he talked her into it.  She seemed completely disinterested and even a little threatened?

5. We shouldn't complain but maybe pull your head out, Mr. Sorenson, and use some freaking common sense!

travelingwitht said:

Thursday Thoughts and Questions:

 

1.Vivian thinks: It is a pitiful kind of childhood, to know that no one loves you or is taking care of you, to always be on the outside looking in.

 

How telling is that thought for later in the book? Does that thought have something/anything to do with a choice she makes later?

 

2. Mr. Sorenson ( the Children's Aid Society) finds out that Mr. Grote is unemployed when he  and Vivian arrive. Why did he leave Vivian there? Did it have something to do with Great Depression time and that good men were losing their jobs- so Grote not having a job was not a big deal? Was it more? Was he blind? Did he just not care?

 

3. Over the course of Orphan Train, Vivian had women in her life that did care for her- Fanny, Miss Larsen are the 2 that come to mind. How do you think Vivian's life might have been different had those 2 ladies not at least tried to help?

 

4. What is Dina's problem? Why would she want to be a foster mother?

 

5. Mr. Sorenson: The world is not a perfect place, and when we are dependent on the charity of others, we are not always in  a position to complain.

 

That quote makes me want to reach out and pinch that man.

1. Wow!  I had no idea the hardships those kids faced.  At times it seemed like they were being treated like cattle!  I wanted to give them a hug and tell them they are loved.  But today the unwanted kids are still treated in a similar way.  They may not be free labor but the feeling of unwantedness is still being shown to them by multiple homes and distanced people. 

I think they were trying to do what was best but they didn't take into account that the whole country was suffering at the time so I'm not sure what they were thinking in just moving them to another place.  But honestly how to you drop off an orphan into a hovel like the poor family with a bunch of kids.  I mean he saw those conditions and he still left her there!  What!

I think there are good and bad people in every situation.  Vivian and Dutchy got the raw end while others like Carmine had it pretty good.

2. My jaw dropped when they changed their names.  I don't even do that with horses or dogs unless I don't know their names or the name is so incredibly stupid I just can't use it!  Even then I make it similar to the other name.  So you are telling the kids not only are they totally unwanted not even their name is good enough.  There was nothing wrong with any of their names.  I do like how they gave Vivian the option to change her name to Vivian.  Finally Vivian got a choice in something.  It seemed like the kids weren't treated better than animals.

3. I hate that Vivian had to grow up thinking Maisie was dead all those years and then still miss out on a relationship with her and find out she was dead again.  How dare those people tell Vivian her sister was dead and take her from her.  I'm glad Maisie had a good life and I'm glad Vivian finally had a good life.  She's stronger than I could ever be!  With Vivian's mom having so many mental health issues I'm not sure it would have been any better to stay with her family.  But I'm not sure it would have been worse.  Just a different set of problems.  Hard to say what problems may have been worse.

Kim 

travelingwitht said:

Wednesday's Thoughts:

 

1. What do you think of Orphan trains? Were the orphanages dealing with overflow of children in the city the best way they could? What do you think about the people who came to pick the kids from the orphan train? Malicious intent? Mostly good people with some bad apples thrown in?

 

2. How hard do you think it must be for the children to be forced to change names, forget their life before the Oprhan Train?

 

3. Let's pretened Vivian never was on the Oprhan Train- based on what we knew about Vivian's life before the train- do you think she would have been better off with her family? Or was the Orphan Train a blessing in disguise?